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Portal:Toolforge/Admin/Monthly meeting/2024-01-16

From Wikitech

Attendees: David Caro Seyram Komla Sapaty Taavi Väänänen Francesco Negri Raymond Olisaemeka

Previous meeting action items


  • Grid migration status/check-in
  • Toolforge high level direction
  • Backlog grooming - links to the backlogs at the top of Toolforge workgroup check-in meeting notes - 2024
  • Buildpacks and maintenance


  • Grid migration status
    • TV: From the dashboard it seems it’s going very slow
    • STS: The majority of disabled tools are completely abandoned, there was not much activity in phab for those. We have to start stopping tools in 1 month from now.
    • TV: I think we will talk more about this in the WMCS team meeting
    • DC: Should we send an email to remind people there is only 1 month left?
    • STS: From the previous round, it seems email is ineffective, I’m trying to use talk pages this time. I will still send an email as well.
  • Toolforge high level direction
    • DC: I started writing a document to have a shared high-level roadmap, so that we can start working on some concrete tasks.
    • TV: How long do we have to give feedback and what happens after that?
    • DC: I think a week is enough, I don’t want this to last for months. Even if we don’t have a very detailed thing, it’s a start. After a week I will try integrating the ideas and suggestions and then fill up some tasks to work on.
    • TV: I’m adding an action item to review the document and follow up.
    • DC: I will send an email to cloud-admin as well
  • Backlog grooming
    • FN: Can we have a look at some of the backlog?
    • FN: We should also consider making this regular, eg. 10-15 last minutes of these meetings. Thoughts? It could be an optional timeboxed section at the end of the monthly meeting.
    • DC: It’s useful but it can be tiring.
    • TV: Let’s try 10 minutes at the end of this meeting
  • Buildpacks and maintenance
    • DC: Many buildpacks we use are not maintained properly by the upstream, and we need to patch bugs locally. In practice we need to fork them and maintain them by ourselves
    • DC: In some cases there are Paketo buildpacks that work better than Heroku ones. Paketo buildpacks are always cloud-native, and Heroku ones are not always. Considering changing the base builder image to Paketo if that is easily possible.
    • DC: I don’t see the number of buildpacks we inject increasing a lot anymore.
    • FN: Good to at least explore the alternatives. Are there other communities/companies in a similar situation?
    • DC: I looked but I didn’t see much. The APT buildpack is not maintained, and I did not see any alternatives. Maybe someone will fork it at some point.
    • TV: Do you think this will become a Decision Request or what’s the next step?
    • DC: It will probably become a Decision Request including the information I have found, and we can decide which way to go. I can create a task for the investigation, and then another one for the Decision Request.
    • RO: If Paketo buildpacks are probably maintained, then even if it takes some work it might be worth it.
    • DC: Paketo’s community is a lot smaller, but some buildpacks are actively maintained. I didn’t find any Rust buildpacks for Paketo, we might have to re-use the one from Heroku or build our own.
    • FN: If we switch to Paketo, can we use still use some Heroku buildpacks?
    • DC: You need a wrapper, and it’s possible that the Heroku one has some convention that doesn’t work with Paketo. We would have to test it but I don’t think it would be a big blocker. There should not be a big different for the users switching from Heroku to Paketo.

Action items

  • Carry-on from last meeting: Let’s do something about uncontactable maintainers and abandoned tools in Q3/Q4
  • Carry-on from last meeting: Discuss with the community how to restart the Toolforge Standards Committee. We can use the mailing list and/or the talk page, but we should not start this discussion until the grid migration is completed to avoid having too many discussions at the same time.
  • Everyone to review Toolforge user stories 2024 before 2024-01-23.
    • David to send a reminder to cloud-admin@
    • David to follow up afterwards
  • David to investigate buildpack alternatives
  • For next time: discuss if doing backlog grooming in this meeting makes sense, and how that ties with the WMCS team clinic duty